MEET THE ANCESTORS
Dennis Price of Eternal Idol
Dennis is considered to be an expert on Stonehenge; a former archaeologist, broadcaster and successful published author. He runs a great website called Eternal Idol where he publishes articles about things dear to his heart, which is extensive! I contacted him regarding his opinion on the reburial issues at Stonehenge and he very kindly wrote a considered and very insightful response.
Another article he wrote about Reburial can be found here check out his website, there is a wealth of information on there that I think you will enjoy.
Another article he wrote about Reburial can be found here check out his website, there is a wealth of information on there that I think you will enjoy.
RESPONSE TO KING ARTHUR PENDRAGON
Source - Eternal Idol
"Guest posts have long been an occasional feature of Eternal Idol. Over the years, I’ve gladly published material by others, as well as promoting their books or their websites, while I’ve also been happy to help individuals such as Hannah Gardiner as best I can, although the same principle applies to groups such as Heritage Action, the Stonehenge Druids, the Amesbury Community, the creators of the Stonehenge Giant and many others.
I’ve also posted material on behalf of individuals such as Brian John; I don’t agree with his views about the bluestones, but if he has an interest in Stonehenge, then that’s good enough for me. A few days ago, I was corrected on a highly significant matter of fact by Andrew Wilson of Oxford University and I remain very grateful to this gentleman for politely showing me the error of my ways.
Having said all that, I generally steer clear of political issues regarding Stonehenge because they’re more trouble than they’re worth, but last night, I received an exceedingly polite and respectful request from Naomi Fountain who is the Webmistress for the Loyal Arthurian Warband. As I understand it, Naomi invited me to give my view on a recent pronouncement from King Arthur – reproduced below – so I’m happy to say what I think on this occasion.
STONEHENGE - THE DEBATE ON HUMAN REMAINS AND OUR CAMPAIGN
Let me dispel some of the misinformation;
We have never claimed, despite what you might read in the Press, that we are the direct genealogic decedents of those buried around Stonehenge, or that they were a “Royal Line”.
What I have said, is that the archaeologists are claiming them to be either a Royal line, or the Priest Caste, or architects of Stonehenge, and I have added that they can be therefore thought of as “The very Founding Fathers of this Nation”.
We view them as the Collective Ancestors not as has been stated, as our direct ancestors.
We are not against the Archaeologists, the Scientists or the Educationists. We are not against learning by examination and testing. We are against permanent museum retention and storage of Ancient Human Remains, Cremated or otherwise.
We feel that once all has been learned from such remains they should be re-interred and the funeral practices and wishes of those who were “Laid them to rest” should be honoured.
Samples may be kept for future analysis where appropriate and copies and models put on display but we believe in re-interring the dead and we believe that the ancient Dead should be given the same consideration and reverence as the recent Dead. And that pre-Christian Burial Grounds and remains should be afforded the same protection under law as is given to more recent cemeteries and those who are laid to rest there.
King Arthur Pendragon /|\
Message ends.
First of all, let me address this matter of the ancestors. I grew up being aware of Lucy, who was for a long time the oldest known human or hominid. She is roughly 3.2 million years old and from what I remember of the various documentaries I saw about her, all those decades ago, I got the distinct impression that she was my ancestor in some way, shape or form. I have no idea whatsoever of how her family tree later progressed, or if it went into some evolutionary cul-de-sac, but I think of myself as having a link of sorts to her, regardless of the vast gulf of time that separates us both.
I also think of the BBC production Meet the Ancestors, which ran for seven series and included some special editions. I don’t know who thought of the title, but the clear inference was that the audience of this programme was in some way connected to those who had gone before. From what I can see, the basic appeal of most programmes dealing with history or archaeology rests on our perceived connection in some way, shape or form with those who went before us, so I personally don’t understand why the remains of the ancestors at Stonehenge should be regarded as a separate case.
As for precisely how we view the people who were buried at Stonehenge around 3,000 years ago, then simple logic suggests that because Stonehenge was a special place, then special people were buried there. I’ve gone over all this a thousand times before here on Eternal Idol, but as far back as 2008, a case was made for Stonehenge having been the burial place of prehistoric royalty and this is something that makes perfect sense to me.
Of course, these people may have been some other form of perceived elite, such as priests or astronomers or seers, but everything suggests that they were regarded as people somehow apart and certainly exalted by simple virtue of where they were buried and how they were buried. The lives and deaths of these people preceded the building of the later stone monument with which we’re all so familiar by several centuries, but there’s every chance that part of the function of the later monument was to commemorate those buried nearby.
Furthermore, the latest thinking states that Stonehenge was built to unify Britain’s warring tribes, so if this too has any truth to it, then I would certainly and readily agree that it was entirely legitimate to regard the Ancestors as “The Founding Fathers of this Nation”.
Personally, I would go further than this. The French priest Ernest Dimnet once wrote “Architecture, of all the arts, is the one which acts the most slowly, but the most surely, on the soul.” Stonehenge’s architecture is undeniably a true Wonder of the World, both in the method of its construction and in the effect it has upon all observers, who marvel at the unique sight of the uprights surmounted by a ring of lintels and who find it impossible to forget ever afterwards.
This bequest from our ancestors draws a million people a year to Stonehenge, generating a vast amount of money in entrance fees at the site itself, as well as providing welcome revenue elsewhere in the immediate vicinity, in the county and in the country, so our debt to these ancient people is immeasurable, especially when you consider the wonderment they’ve provided us all with for millennia.
Others may differ on this, but I believe that a solitary individual genius was responsible for envisaging Stonehenge as the monument that so many of us admire today. All things considered, I would put that long-dead man or woman on a par with Leonardo da Vinci, while it’s interesting to note that this 15th century visionary was also concerned with the reburial issue, as he is credited with observing that “The bones of the dead will be seen to govern the fortunes of him who moves them.”
Make of this all what you will, Naomi, but I hope I’ve answered your questions.
Dennis Price
Archaeologist, broadcaster & author."
"Guest posts have long been an occasional feature of Eternal Idol. Over the years, I’ve gladly published material by others, as well as promoting their books or their websites, while I’ve also been happy to help individuals such as Hannah Gardiner as best I can, although the same principle applies to groups such as Heritage Action, the Stonehenge Druids, the Amesbury Community, the creators of the Stonehenge Giant and many others.
I’ve also posted material on behalf of individuals such as Brian John; I don’t agree with his views about the bluestones, but if he has an interest in Stonehenge, then that’s good enough for me. A few days ago, I was corrected on a highly significant matter of fact by Andrew Wilson of Oxford University and I remain very grateful to this gentleman for politely showing me the error of my ways.
Having said all that, I generally steer clear of political issues regarding Stonehenge because they’re more trouble than they’re worth, but last night, I received an exceedingly polite and respectful request from Naomi Fountain who is the Webmistress for the Loyal Arthurian Warband. As I understand it, Naomi invited me to give my view on a recent pronouncement from King Arthur – reproduced below – so I’m happy to say what I think on this occasion.
STONEHENGE - THE DEBATE ON HUMAN REMAINS AND OUR CAMPAIGN
Let me dispel some of the misinformation;
We have never claimed, despite what you might read in the Press, that we are the direct genealogic decedents of those buried around Stonehenge, or that they were a “Royal Line”.
What I have said, is that the archaeologists are claiming them to be either a Royal line, or the Priest Caste, or architects of Stonehenge, and I have added that they can be therefore thought of as “The very Founding Fathers of this Nation”.
We view them as the Collective Ancestors not as has been stated, as our direct ancestors.
We are not against the Archaeologists, the Scientists or the Educationists. We are not against learning by examination and testing. We are against permanent museum retention and storage of Ancient Human Remains, Cremated or otherwise.
We feel that once all has been learned from such remains they should be re-interred and the funeral practices and wishes of those who were “Laid them to rest” should be honoured.
Samples may be kept for future analysis where appropriate and copies and models put on display but we believe in re-interring the dead and we believe that the ancient Dead should be given the same consideration and reverence as the recent Dead. And that pre-Christian Burial Grounds and remains should be afforded the same protection under law as is given to more recent cemeteries and those who are laid to rest there.
King Arthur Pendragon /|\
Message ends.
First of all, let me address this matter of the ancestors. I grew up being aware of Lucy, who was for a long time the oldest known human or hominid. She is roughly 3.2 million years old and from what I remember of the various documentaries I saw about her, all those decades ago, I got the distinct impression that she was my ancestor in some way, shape or form. I have no idea whatsoever of how her family tree later progressed, or if it went into some evolutionary cul-de-sac, but I think of myself as having a link of sorts to her, regardless of the vast gulf of time that separates us both.
I also think of the BBC production Meet the Ancestors, which ran for seven series and included some special editions. I don’t know who thought of the title, but the clear inference was that the audience of this programme was in some way connected to those who had gone before. From what I can see, the basic appeal of most programmes dealing with history or archaeology rests on our perceived connection in some way, shape or form with those who went before us, so I personally don’t understand why the remains of the ancestors at Stonehenge should be regarded as a separate case.
As for precisely how we view the people who were buried at Stonehenge around 3,000 years ago, then simple logic suggests that because Stonehenge was a special place, then special people were buried there. I’ve gone over all this a thousand times before here on Eternal Idol, but as far back as 2008, a case was made for Stonehenge having been the burial place of prehistoric royalty and this is something that makes perfect sense to me.
Of course, these people may have been some other form of perceived elite, such as priests or astronomers or seers, but everything suggests that they were regarded as people somehow apart and certainly exalted by simple virtue of where they were buried and how they were buried. The lives and deaths of these people preceded the building of the later stone monument with which we’re all so familiar by several centuries, but there’s every chance that part of the function of the later monument was to commemorate those buried nearby.
Furthermore, the latest thinking states that Stonehenge was built to unify Britain’s warring tribes, so if this too has any truth to it, then I would certainly and readily agree that it was entirely legitimate to regard the Ancestors as “The Founding Fathers of this Nation”.
Personally, I would go further than this. The French priest Ernest Dimnet once wrote “Architecture, of all the arts, is the one which acts the most slowly, but the most surely, on the soul.” Stonehenge’s architecture is undeniably a true Wonder of the World, both in the method of its construction and in the effect it has upon all observers, who marvel at the unique sight of the uprights surmounted by a ring of lintels and who find it impossible to forget ever afterwards.
This bequest from our ancestors draws a million people a year to Stonehenge, generating a vast amount of money in entrance fees at the site itself, as well as providing welcome revenue elsewhere in the immediate vicinity, in the county and in the country, so our debt to these ancient people is immeasurable, especially when you consider the wonderment they’ve provided us all with for millennia.
Others may differ on this, but I believe that a solitary individual genius was responsible for envisaging Stonehenge as the monument that so many of us admire today. All things considered, I would put that long-dead man or woman on a par with Leonardo da Vinci, while it’s interesting to note that this 15th century visionary was also concerned with the reburial issue, as he is credited with observing that “The bones of the dead will be seen to govern the fortunes of him who moves them.”
Make of this all what you will, Naomi, but I hope I’ve answered your questions.
Dennis Price
Archaeologist, broadcaster & author."
